Thursday, June 30, 2011

The Submissive Partner's Perspective: "What if my HoH breaks a rule?"

Image courtesy of the Roxiticus blog.
Chelsea, the submissive partner in our marriage, gives her answer to one of the most commonly asked questions we get.  You can new read this article on our new website by clicking here.


Anonymous said...

I was feeling bad that your husband's posts are getting all the comments and you wrote this lovely answer and no one had yet commented on it, so I wanted to give you a comment.

I've been a DD woman/wife for our entire relationship and this topic is often something I've been asked about or even judged about. How can I allow my husband to discipline me yet I don't give him any consequences if he needs correction.

My answer is simply that he really doesn't screw up. He's not perfect by any means, he's just as falliable I or anyone else is. I think the difference is that he puts a lot of pressure on himself to make sure his own behaviour is of a higher standard. He feels that he can't hold me to account for something if he is doing the same thing. That just wouldn't be fair. For example, he doesn't swear (maybe he does with the guys but I don't hear him), he always wears a seatbelt etc.

I don't know that this is something that someone can understand if they're not open to the concepts of DD. I suppose on the surface, it looks like the husband is making rules, making sure the wife obeys them and punishing her if she doesn't. There is so much more to it than that.

I believe it takes a special kind of man to be in a DD relationship - one who is kind, loving, firm, aware of himelf and his strengths and limitations and honourable.

Sorry for the long comment - really wanted to share my thanks to you for your blog and hope you will share more in the future.


Anonymous said...

Very helpful entry. Something I've struggled with!

Anonymous said...

What if he breaks a rule? Been there. Done that. He broke a rule. I lashed out and broke three rules. I learned that 2 wrongs does not make a right and that life isn’t fair. I was the one who got spanked. He is the head of our household. It is his duty to enforce the rules. I broke them and deserved the spanking.

Anonymous said...

Frankly this is the precise thing that keeps me from exploring a DD relationship with my spouse. I accept that neither of us are perfect and that we both frequently try our best. In reading blogs or forums like this one that take it as a serious lifestyle, I feel a nodding sympathy with the goals of it. It is appealing to me to have a structure and rules and consequences. It is appealing to me to think that there is a better way to wipe the slate clean when I've been unforgivably rude than a mere apology.

And yet . . . every time we discuss it, I can't seem to move away from this. I'm a responsible adult; I wear my seat belt, I don't text while driving, I don't drink in excess, I pay the bills and rarely overspend. Not perfect - there are certainly areas where I need to change and my spouse is willing to help me. But I'm afraid that in many ways I am the more responsible spouse. I pay the bills on time - my spouse tends to forget, as an example.

I'm not sure that I would really be able to submit to a spanking if I'm thinking somewhere in the back of my mind, "Yeah, I did do that, even when we agreed not to, but he nearly got our electricity shut off, and that's a much bigger deal."

It seems like the only response is for me to ask my spouse to assist me in correcting specific behaviors by a set punishment or reward system, rather than a general DD situation. However, I tend to feel a bit childish or less like a responsible adult engaging in that sort of action (maybe because it's not a lifestyle?).

Thanks for the interesting, thoughtful blog.

Anonymous said...

I would like to respond to the last comment. If you expect your husband to be the Head Of Household, expect him to punish you for your discretions, expect him to be the Dominant Man and ensure the safety, security, and continuity of your household, then you are doing your part to make him a Man Of the Household. But you have not allowed him to be Masculine, to be Dominant, to be the Head Of Household. It is said that a woman only wants to admire her man, and a Man only wants to be admired by his woman. Do your part. Men have been so indoctrinated by society to be less than a man. Help your man be all that he can be, and in such, lay yourself over his knee and let him know that you also need help in being a better wife.

Dragon's Rose said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

This is 'Frankly' - I do apologize if I came across as being dismissive of DD. I'm reading this blog because it's a thoughtful exploration of DD outside of a spanking fetish, which is frequently how I see DD portrayed. There is rarely growth in those areas because the HOH gets off on spanking the other spouse, and the spanked spouse gets off on the spanking. Not there is inherently anything wrong with that, but it rarely seems to work out in terms of actual behavior modification. This blog, on the other hand, seems to address discipline in way that appeals to me.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure that this is, when I (and my spouse) carefully consider, something that would be right for us. I still don't see how this equates to fairness or where the spouse who is HOH is kept in check or held accountable to the rules of the house. Perhaps that simply means this is not a lifestyle which will work for us. I am questioning for myself whether I can submit the authority of someone else if I believe them to be in the wrong about a particular issue.

LittleMissie, you say that you were punished once when your husband was wrong, but that your punishment was deserved. You state why. That all makes perfect sense to me. What I'm struggling to understand is what happens if you hadn't stormed out of the room. What happens if he is wrong? Full stop.

If he breaks a rule, what happens? Where is the accountability for him? I can see being submissive if I break a rule we agreed to, and I can see how I would accept a spanking in the scenario you describe, even if it started by his snapping, because you were responsible for your actions after that. I'm just not sure, generally speaking, if I would be able to/comfortable with agreeing to this sort of lifestyle when I tend to be the more responsible spouse in our marriage. Frankly, it's a concern he has expressed as well, which is why I was excited to see this addressed on this particular blog.

I reading this blog so that I can try to better understand and evaluate whether or not this is something I want in my life, so that the next time my spouse and I discuss this, I can talk clearly about my wants and fears.

Dragon's Rose said...

@ frankly What would have happened had I not left the room? We would have worked out our differences and he would have ultimately apologized. He makes amends to me in other ways but usually he doesn’t have to. As HOH he holds himself to a higher standard. I have really started to notice the changes in him in the last year. The more control I give him, the higher the standard he holds himself too. No, I don’t get to punish him. I wouldn’t want to. Does a child spank the parent? Does the subordinate withhold pay from his supervisor? No.

Who holds me to a standard? He does. Who holds him to a standard? He does. His supervisor at work, peer pressure, close friends, his father. When he treats me bad there are plenty of people who notice and call him to task. What if he is in the wrong? He steps up and apologizes. If it was really bad he does something special for me. A trip to the fabric store. A date night of Greek food and the symphony.

Yes, I do enjoy erotic spanking. We both do. However, punishment is something all together different that neither one of us enjoy. It is serious and has a completely different emotional results. I was surprised at the similarities of this website and my own relationship with my husband. We don’t have a script but the steps my HOH follows are very close to the steps here on this blog.

This lifestyle all comes down to trust. How much do you trust him? With your life? With your money? Your children? I trust my husband but it has taken me years to get to this point. Even with that said, I get stubborn when it comes time for a punishment. I balk, get stubborn and defiant. He is firm, patient and uses his authority to get compliance. Never force. I do have safe words where most people in this lifestyle don’t. It is my out if I hit the panic point and he doesn’t realize it.

Is this lifestyle for you? I can’t say. For me it began with the conviction to fully submit to my husband. It hasn’t been easy but it is worth the effort. Visit my blog if you want to learn more about us. I don’t kiss and tell or get graphic. Squick.

Kay said...

Chelsea, thanks for writing about this! I'm big on justice, so it's hard for me when I feel it's not fair. BUT I also recognize that higher standard my husband now holds himself to since he took on the role of HOH, how he transformed so drastically to become what both of us needed, and I know his job is not easy either. So I choose to submit anyway. But he does make it up to me if he messes up, not to mention he feels terrible!
@Little Missie: VERY well said!

Anonymous said...

I agree with a lot of what Kay said. When my husband and I agreed to begin d/d in our 20 plus year marriage he totally changed himself after realizing that he was and always should have been the head of our household. Not only does he hold me to certain "standards" he holds himself there as well so we have both changed for the better. I truly feel in my heart that it is a woman's place to submit to her husband and I accept that and so does my husband. That being said, he still treats me like a queen and someone that he listens to and takes my opinion to heart, but in the end HE makes the decisions, and he also doles out punishments for breaking any rules we set at my request when we decided to begin D/D. I was the one who brought D/D to my husband as a way to live our lives, and our marriage could not be any better than it is now. A lot of women go to their men asking for D/D. It is more natural than many women are willing to admit to nevertheless ask for....

Anonymous said...

I am very glad you wrote this Chelsea. I've just recently discovered This blog, as well as yours as well, and I have found it very useful. My husband and I are in the beginning of a DD relationship and we have both found it very helpful. I have always been the more responsible One so it seems silly That he, the much less responsible one, would be HoH, but I knew that if he were in a position where he had to hold me accountable and be a sort of role model, it would help him to become a more responsible person. I feel that we have both improved in all aspects of our lives. I do get upset when he breaks a rule or messes up but he's good about apologizing, if it has affected me negatively, and making it better. Thank you for your perspective and for starting your own blog. I can't wait to see what else you have to share with us. God bless,


Anonymous said...

This kind of funny to me. The same kind of relationship I'm in only flipped. I dole put punishments to my husband and I have for twenty years. If he's bad he knows to go to the room and pull down his pants and gets over my knee. I spank him till he cries and begs me to stop and then he stands in the corner. It works for us this way. I think a women could also be dominant and have a happy marriage. He's learned to be a better man because of me. If I'm wrong I'll admit it and apologize, but in general it's him who is in the wrong. I don't tolerate foul language or rude behavior or disrespect of any kind and he knows it. At first he felt he was being turned into a little boy, but men are irresponsible and immature anyway so why not treat him that way? He treats me so wonderfully now and we couldn't be happier. He's actually due for a spanking tonight for storming out of the room, a big no no. He tried to apologize and asked me not to, but if i don't teach him he'll continue the behavior right? He's never done it before so I have to nip it in the bud now.

Learning Domestic Discipline said...

@Anonymous (October 13th 10:05 PM) - I'm glad you and your husband have found what works best for you both in your marriage.

All the best.

-- Clint

Anonymous said...

But have you shown him that YOU are incapable of self-correcting? Is that why you get to do the spanky dance for him and not the other way around?

Anonymous said...

Clint, are you able to see how humiliating and degrading the whole thing is when someone describes a (god forbid) MALE DD victim, such as the one described in the post by Anonymous Oct 13th?

Anonymous said...

The poster above said, "but men are irresponsible and immature anyway so why not treat him that way?" I think it is sad that our society has taken feminism and turned it into male bashing and belittling. Everywhere our boys and men turn they are portrayed as foolish and immature. If they show these traits it is because that is what they have been told and treated like all of their lives. It would never be accepted by society to belittle women the way men are belittled. No one should be abused that way.
One of the benefits of a wife submitting to her husband is that she is convincing him that the lies are not true and that he is a capable leader. As she puts her trust in him he grows. Men do rise to the occasion when given a chance.
The discipline on this site isn't about determining that someone in forever flawed, it is about seeing their potential and with their consent, helping them grow.
This is my humble opinion.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 3:51, you make a VERY good point about the male bashing. And perhaps that is why this pendulum swing of men reclaiming their power exists, albeit WAY over the top, in the form of DD. What you need to understand, however, is that women have been crushed under patriarchal societies and male oppression for millenniums. Has feminism swung that pendulum too far in the other direction. Yes. But give us a break. It's only been 50 years. Men have had centuries before this swing which finally, and necessarily, took place. The female pain body (you can look that up) is HUGE. I personally don't need a man to beat my ass to make me submit to him. And that would not work for me. It would only cause me anger and resentment. Submission and obedience is, by definition, something GIVEN. And it is given to man who is WORTHY of it. DD "punishment" is, by definition, coercion. The word "discipline" comes from the word "disciple." Meditate on that for a while.

Learning Domestic Discipline said...

@Anonymous (November 2nd 3:31 AM) - Sure, I can understand how someone who does not agree with the lifestyle of another would find the said lifestyle humiliating and degrading. Someone who feels that way should not practice their lifestyle in that manner, obviously. The poster on Oct. 13 indicated the lifestyle they lead works for them, and I'm not going to judge them for what they believe in, particularly if it makes them happy.

All the best to you.

-- Clint

Anonymous said...

Being happily married for 38 years I just do not get this lifestyle approach at all - My husband held me accountable for my behaviour in my first year of marriage by asking questions telling me how he felt -had he tried to please me all the time - the princess may have stayed - but we talked it through.

He wouldn't want me to be submissive - infact life has thrown us so many curved balls I don't know how one person would have coped with all the responsibility - fortunately we worked in tandum - one would be strong and come to lead while the other regrouped.

In many ways I am submissive under your rules, I rarely snap, I would never disrespect, I don't ask permission to go out with my friends but always check to see if its ok with his plans, he even bought our house without me seeing it and I was cool about it because I totally trusted him - but never once has he punished me to get me to be like this. I certainly wouldn't ever lie to my husband I have too much respect for him and the relationship but I think I would if I was going to be spanked.

I cannot understand why its assumed that a woman cannot self correct - Even when things get difficult a Glasser approach to getting an uncoperative person to check their behaviour is more efficient than spanking.

If this approach is so successful in changing behaviour why are women still being spanked so often.

Having said all that Clint I will admit your blog is respectful and I like the way you guide people into limiting punishments- I am amazed to read on other blogs how women are left with bruises and welts and women with chronic pain disease being spanked . If people are going to follow this lifestyle I am glad you are around to help.

One thing that really made me chuckle though was advocating an advanced spanking for not wearing a seatbelt. Coming from a place where seatbelts have been compulsory for 40 years it is such a non event.

Anonymous said...

While I would hesitate to completely write off the Spencer Spanking Plan as a hoax, there is something about the wording to suggest it is more the product of early women's rights than a genuine recipe for marital bliss.

Although largely forgotten in the wake of the Sexual Revolution of the 1960s, the Roaring 20s were heady days for women. For the first time in American history, largely thanks to Prohibition, women were drinking booze with men. They were also smoking cigarettes and driving automobiles.

It was also an age when men and women discovered the clitoris. This, along with mass production of the electric vibrator, began to sexually liberate women from Victorian Era sexual constraints.

For many woman, passage of the 19th Amendment served as proof that women were the equal of any man. Some women went to far as to claim that the right to vote gave them total independence from their husbands. Supposedly, so one line of the day went, Husbands could no longer beat their wives." Yet, despite the glib promises of a domestic utopia, the fact remains that rates for divorce saw an uptick after 1920. It would be the first of many increases in divorce rates during the 20th century.

Although not talked about much these days, Alfred Fuller had a hand in women's equality through door-to-door sales of hairbrushes. As my wife clearly remembers the sales pitch as she watched her mother buy a Fuller hairbrush, sometimes these were sold to mothers specifically for the purpose of spanking. One selling point was, as my wife confirmed from personal experience, the paddle-like implement put the sting of man's palm into the hands of a woman!

Although Dorothy Spencer puts a different implement into the hand of the wife, an examination of the Spencer Spanking Plan reveals this same attempt to equalize the relative advantage between men and women.

Yet, the reality is that a man's hand is not always able to overcome a woman's considerable psychological defenses. It often takes the sting of a paddle to make a difficult woman sufficiently submissive.

Another difficulty arises because of the way in which the minds of men and women process spanking. Women typically incorporate the lessons learned over a man's knee into their future behavior. In psychological terms, women internalize the cumulative effects of spanking. They are more inclined than men to blame their behavior for the spanking. Although not always successful, they subsequently adjust their behavior to avoid getting another one.

On the other hand, men are more resistant to physical aggression. They tend to fight the spanking and blame the spanker.

In the end, because it fails to establish lines of authority within the domestic environment, the Spencer Spanking plan may do little more than create more problems than it solves.

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