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Learning Domestic Discipline
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LDD's Weekly Recap: July 29th - August 4th
11 years ago
Sunday, July 24, 2011
Discipline Spankings vs. Erotic Spankings
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67 comments:
Great post Clint~ Perfect! You said evrything that needed to be said and cleared up every misconception that had been made and even gave some good advice. Well done!
HI Clint,
I agree that discipline spanking should be disconnected with sex.
About spanking, why do you think it is so effective when disciplining women? Why is a lesson better learned across a man's knee getting a sore bottom than other non-corporal punishments (or non-buttocks directed CP)?
Could there be some sort of bottom-brain connection?
I'm wondering...
What do you think?
Greetings
Carla
So here we were just talking about this subject and you post this. Thank you very much!
@His First Mate - Thank you! I'm glad it helped clear things up. Always a good thing.
@Carla - These questions open a whole new can of worms. It's difficult to say exactly why that is. Perhaps my wife, or some of the female readers, may be able to answer your questions better than I can.
I think it's instilled within us from birth for males to take the leadership and disciplinarian role, while women take the nurturing and care-taking role. Now where that comes from is a matter of what religious doctrine you believe in, and I'm not going to get into that on this blog.
I think the physical element to a spanking is what makes it so effective. The pain is an effective deterrent for any person, male or female, to not repeat a behavior. If you touch a stove and it burns your hand, are you touching that stove again? Probably not. It's the same principle.
I think the whole spanking process itself adds to the effectiveness as well. A wife acknowledging and understanding her mistake triggers emotions of guilt, remorse and sorrow. She agrees to have her husband hold her accountable for her actions by having him spank her to release those emotions and "clean the slate." Those feelings also act as a deterrent to repeat the behavior since, generally speaking, nobody likes feeling guilty for something they knew was wrong.
I may be going off in a different direction here, but I don't think there's necessarily a bottom-brain connection, but I can't say for sure. I think that the wife agreeing to have her husband hold her accountable is what makes spanking even more effective in correcting a behavior.
I'd be interested to hear other peoples' responses to your questions as well. Hopefully a few readers will voice their thoughts on the matter.
-- Clint
@PJ - You're welcome! I thought now was a good time to do so.
-- Clint
great post - thank you. I find it hard when hubby discsiplines me and then wants sex. I would never say no but i prefer that he had sex with me later or the next day rather than after punishment. He doesnt always, but most times he does. Another topic for another discussion. This is a great site - how do I add myself as a follower?
@Kiwigirliegirl - Sex often gets mixed in. It happens, but as you can see in the post, I recommend against it. I understand it's hard though.
Honestly I don't know how you become a follower. I know it can be done though, since I have a few followers through blogger. Perhaps another commenter might know. Sorry I'm not very helpful with that question.
-- Clint
Clint
EXCELLENT post. I can't wait for my husband to read it. I was very happy that you went into detail about why you feel that sex should never preceed or follow discipline.
I hope you will write a post on maintenance soon. I know you personally don't feel that it works, BUT, for many of us ladies that don't get "in trouble" a lot maintenance often works to keep those lines clear in the relationship about who is incharge.
We ladies often crave the leadership of our HOHs and for some of us that don't act out or mess up very often part of the experience is kind of missing when "spanking" is mostly a erotic experience.
We ladies know how a discipline spanking can make us feel better about our dynamic and erotic spanking just doesn't have the same effect (at least from my perspective.)
Sooooo...even though you don't agree with it, I think you understand what maintenance does for some couples in that repsect. And I would love to hear your opinion and explination. The practice of maintenance is probably one of the most confusing things in many DD relationships.
There is a good article on another blog, that addresses maintenance. I will include the link below.
I don't agree with some of the writers views, but, there is never going to be a "one size fits all" blog. I must say though, in my opinion, so far, yours is quickly becoming the the best resource out there for those of us trying to incorporate DD into our relationship.
Your blog has helped me a lot.
newbie
http://christiandomesticdiscipline.com/maintenancediscipline.html
@Newbie - Wow, thank you so much. Those are wonderful comments about my blog and I'm so glad to hear you're enjoying it. And, one of the best things I can hear from a person is that it is helping them/their marriage a lot. That's fantastic and I'm SO happy to hear it.
I do plan on writing a post on maintenance spankings in the future. I don't typically recommend them, but they aren't something I'm TOTALLY against. I'm really 50/50 on maintenance. I understand how they would be helpful to a marriage, I just typically don't recommend they be done. Anyway, I'll get into all that in the future maintenance spankings post. You're right - some couples really benefit from them as I've learned from numerous people in the LDD Social Network. There are a lot of great people in the network.
I don't have time to read the link you've posted right this moment, but when I get a chance I'll read over it. Thank you for sharing the link.
Again, thank you for your compliments on my blog. They truly mean a lot to me.
-- Clint
I find a few things about your blog disturbing. The main issue is that you consider yourself a DD councilor. I have yet to see a list of qualifications, certificates or specialized training. Granted, I have not been to every church in the US, but I have never seen or heard DD mentioned in any church I have ever attended. I would never even think about asking a pastor about DD or anything related to it. You say there are pamphlets available. Where can I find examples of these, since the churches in my area do not sanction this lifestyle? Where can I find a church that is open to the idea of dd? Back up your words with proof.
A skeptic
@A Skeptic - Thank you for your comment, A skeptic.
It sounds like you aren't Christian, in which case I don't know where you would find information about DD through whichever church you're affiliated with. I happen to be Christian so I don't know about other religions. If you are Christian, I apologize for misunderstanding you. DD is referenced in the Bible all over the place, and if you're uncomfortable discussing DD with your pastor that isn't my problem. Christian church officials should have information about DD in your area. It would be impossible for me to find examples of pamphlets in your area since you have not disclosed your location in your comment. Regardless, it would be a waste of my time to find it for you. If you want that information, A skeptic, then you'll need to take initiative to find it in your area yourself.
You didn't ask why I don't disclose proof of whatever proof you're looking for - you demanded proof - but I'll answer as though you asked why I don't do that. There are three reasons:
1) It's irrelevant. I don't ask a doctor to see their medical license, I don't ask a lawyer to see their bar exam results, I don't ask an electrician to provide his training certificate. The biggest reason for that is because I find it rude to ask, and it's irrelevant. If a firefighter can fix my plumbing, I really don't care if he's licensed to be a plumber. If he can fix it, it's irrelevant. The only reason anyone should need that information is if they plan on hiring me.
2) Disclosing any more personal information than I already have about myself on a controversial blog would put my family at risk. That isn't a risk I'm willing to take for obvious reasons. If you don't understand that, then I don't know what to tell you.
3) Disclosing information about my education or employer would put my employment at risk. Again, for obvious reasons, that isn't a risk I'm willing to take. If you don't understand that, then I don't know what to tell you.
If you find the blog disturbing, I really don't understand why you're reading it. If you think I'm a liar, or a hack, or find the material on the blog offensive, then don't read it. I don't understand why anyone who that felt that way would read this blog.
I'd be happy to mail you some information about Domestic Discipline if you'll post your full name and mailing address here in the comments. That is, unless you're uncomfortable putting your personal information on a controversial public forum such as this Domestic Discipline blog, A skeptic. Which, from my #2 reason I've provided, I certainly understand.
I wish you and your spouse the very best, A skeptic. It sounds like you won't be reading my blog any further, so best wishes to you and your family in the future.
-- Clint
Great way to distinguish between the two. I agree with you that the two certainly can (and do) exist in any relationship,and any sub who has had a true discipline spanking vs. an erotic one can tell the difference. I love your site and all it's practical advice. I share it regularly with my HOH. Keep up the great work!
1. It is relevant. You are portraying yourself as a professional. Doctors have their certificates hanging in their office on display. Cities train firefighter. However, I do watch volunteer firefighters closely. All training is not equal. It is not rude or irrelevant to ask someone for credentials who is claiming to be a professional. It is not rude to ask your plumber or electrician for credentials. I think it is reckless not too.
2. I am not asking for your personal information. I do understand about keeping your identity safe. However you claim to be a profession on a topic covered in psychology classes as domestic violence. To ask why you consider yourself qualified is a valid question.
3. You run a networking group and charge a fee for your service. I know I’m not the only person reading your blog who has questioned your qualifications.
Yes, I am Christian. To assume that I am not is a slap in the face. Any self respecting pastor or Christian councilor that I have met would call DD domestic violence. I simply asked for an example of the pamphlets you are referring to. I think that is a reasonable request. I would settle even for a way to do a general search for a church. Even searching my area for a specific denomination would help. I have seen books on Amazon and other internet based retail pages but not from main stream national Christian bookstores.
I actually agree with some of what you post on your blog. Some of the advice you give out is questionable. I am in a DD relationship myself. My very first resource was the Christian Domestic Discipline page and Yahoo group. I will continue to come back to you page but I won’t pay for the privilege of being in your social network. Your response was uncalled for. I expected more from a “professional”
Happy to be a waste of time today. Who thought that asking for your qualifications and examples of literature you refer to would be too much to ask for. Hmmm I have to wonder if this information exists at all….
The Skeptic
agreeing with K's sweetie (because she is awesome and i so often do) and also b/c we just need to show Clint some blogland love....Big meanies!!! We love your blog Clint!!!(and the network too!!)
@The Skeptic - Welcome back! Not a waste time at all. In fact, I'm very appreciative of your comment since, as you said, there are likely numerous people that feel the way you do. It needed to be addressed, so I addressed it.
I thanked you for your comment, I apologized if I was incorrect in my assumption of you practicing something other than Christianity (which I was), I answered your questions, and I provided information you didn't ask for by explaining why my information is not disclosed to the public, all while being respectful to your concerns. I don't know how much more professional I could be The Skeptic. If you took it in any other way than professional or in a manner that was uncalled for, then I really don't know what to say. You're entitled to your opinion, and again, I thank you for sharing your thoughts on my blog.
My qualifications won't exist on this blog, or any other public forum. I suppose that means they don't exist to you at all. And that's okay, The Skeptic. I understand. Don't read this blog, and don't listen to or follow my advice if you feel it's unprofessional.
It sounds like an assumption when you say any pastor would consider DD Domestic Violence, but I trust you've discussed this topic with the pastors in your area and presume you're correct in your assumption/claim. With that presumption, I wouldn't recommend practicing DD if those in your area view it as Domestic Violence.
Again, I wish you and your spouse the very best. I'm still happy to mail you some information you're looking for if you'd like to include your full name and mailing address in the comments.
All the best.
-- Clint
@K's Sweetie - Thank you! I'm glad you enjoy the site and find it useful for your marriage. That's what it's all about. :)
@His First Mate - Thanks for the support! I'm glad you enjoy the blog and the network. I'm learning a lot from everyone in the network. It's a great resource for DD information from a lot of great people. Glad I thought of it. :)
-- Clint
You are still evading my questions. Have you received training in your church as a councilor or at a public university? If so, how long was your training? What resources were used in this class? Or is councilor a title you gave yourself after seeing a need in your community?
After an exhaustive search on the internet I can not find a single church that backs the use of DD. I have found books on domestic violence but not DD. I found a Catholic page that called it a fundamental protestant movement and against church teachings. Is this a fundamental independent Baptist teaching? Southern Baptist? Church of Christ? Mormon or Mennonite? Or some other denomination I am not familiar with? Where do I start searching? It would not be good to mention dd to the pastor and see my husband led away in handcuffs.
I have also not been able to find any books on dd at any of the Christian book stores I normally buy from. Pages of books on domestic violence and marriage but none on DD. A link to some of this information would be helpful. (I did find a fictional book about an illuminated church)
I ask for general information and you ask me to post my real name and address? Really? Strait answers please.
The Skeptic
Uh-- you forgot to post annoymously this time! ;)
@First Mate,
LOL...I did a double take also....and thanks for the compliment...right back at you chica!!
@Little Missie - Hey Little Missie/The Skeptic! Why didn't you just say you were Little Missie from the beginning? Nice to have you back a third time, Little Missie/The Skeptic.
I've read over your previous two comments twice now, and I cannot find anywhere within them the questions you asked in your third comment. Evidently you feel I was evading questions that weren't even asked, which is interesting.
Straight (or strait, as you put it) answers. Got it. Your questions will be literally copied and pasted as we go so there is no confusing you.
Have you received training in your church as a councilor or at a public university? -- Yes.
If so, how long was your training? -- Irrelevant.
What resources were used in this class? -- Videos, books and pamphlets.
Or is councilor a title you gave yourself after seeing a need in your community? -- Irrelevant.
Is this a fundamental independent Baptist teaching? -- I don't know.
Southern Baptist? -- I don't know.
Church of Christ? -- I don't know.
Mormon or Mennonite? -- I don't know.
Or some other denomination I am not familiar with? -- I don't know.
Where do I start searching? -- At your church. I've never recommended anyone research this information on the internet.
I ask for general information and you ask me to post my real name and address? -- Yes.
Really? -- Yes.
The questions I answered I don't know to are because I don't know what a "fundamental protestant movement" means. The documentation I use the most for DD is the Bible.
There is an underlying issue here that I'm sure you won't disclose. I believe it to be jealousy, which you'll deny. But I understand. I have yet to understand the point of all of your questions, but quite frankly I don't care what your point is so please don't share it in the comment you will post to get the last word.
I asked for your name and address to illustrate my point of not disclosing personal information on a public forum, which I knew you would not do. You did great, so thank you for illustrating my point.
I look forward to your last comment so you feel better about getting the last word, but I will not respond to it since I feel this is a pointless discussion.
As I've said two times before now, I wish you and your spouse the very best. And, as I've said twice before, if you find my blog to be disturbing, don't read it.
-- Clint
Anonymous/Skeptic/Little Missie,
I'm curious why you are so hostile here. You stated that you are Christian and that you and your husband practice DD, so where is your issue? Unless you're considering hiring Clint as a DD counselor, I don't understand why you have such an issue with his credentials. If you've seen some of the other trash out there on DD, I don't see how you could find anything objectionable about what is posted here on his blog.
Kelly
Well, I'll tell you...
After seeing all of this, I did some research of my own into what our church offers and found that there are several relationship courses (marriage, pre-marriage etc) offered, as are in many churches. A few of them, have DD on the curriculum. They're there.
I agree with Kelly about Little Missie's anger. I don't see you going to her blog and attacking her for what she posts. We each practice DD a little differently, according to our own needs, but we need to respect eachother's opinions.
No anger. All the hostility has came from Clint. Read it from my POV. He is still evading my questions. He is more political than Obama. I am afraid too many people are falling for the “I’m the professional” line without any information to back it up.
This is all very surprising and a bit sad. I just wish the DD community would be a little more "communal" rather than against each other. Regardless of Clint's credentials, his blog is great and anyone can see that by reading his entries. They are very wholesome versus much of the exhibitionist/fetish-style blogs out there. Furthermore, after a week or two of trying things his way, as he has outlined, I am already seeing much better results!!! He must know something!
I'm a bit disappointed as well because I have read Little Missie's blog in the past. I don't know what to make of all this public hostility.
Clint, please keep up the good work with your blog. I really enjoy reading it! :-)
Clint- I'm sorry for this...I may not be very nice, but I will try not to make a personal "judgment", like Little Missie has done. its not gonna be easy
Little Missie- Your original "Anonymous" post was very confrontational, so I totally understand Clints irritation which may have influenced the way he worded his reply. He really should have just told you to piss off...you were out of line right from the beginning.
I have had several exchanges with Clint over things he has said in his blog that I and many others misunderstood, we discussed the issues in a polite, constructive, non judgmental way, we got to the bottom of it, and cleared up alot of misunderstandings.
His blog is one of the finest resources out there for those of us that want to practice Domestic Discipline in our relationships. I dont agree with EVERYTHING I don't follow EVERY suggestion. That would never happen because its different for everyone! Its a "lifestyle" there is no operators manual, no right or wrong way. But this blog is the only one I have found that covers topics in a more "informational" way.
I agree with Christina and Kelly, would you go to their blog and attack them for what they write. I think not. I can't understand how someone such as your self, who also writes a public blog with similar subject matter would be so critical.
By the way..why didn't YOU just post your comment openly and honestly, insteading of hiding behind an "Anonymous" comment???? Your so bent on bashing Clint for wanting to keep his personal information personal, and you wouldn't even post with the name you use for your blog. Are you serious???
I have read your blog..you clearly stated in one of your posts (Keeping it Real)that yours is a BDSM relationship, more so than a "Christian" DD one. At least thats how I read it, and perhaps things have changed sence then and you feel differently, I don't know as I have not read your whole blog. But, if BDSM is STILL your prefered lifestyle,WHY would you even read Clints blog, his blog has NOTHING to do with BDSM in any way.
I guess I am just trying to understand how someone that has been practicing any alternative/non-mainstream lifestyle would be so critical and judgmental of another persons ideals and practices. Let alone read their blog if it didn't fit there lifestyle practices.
I'll address you last comment...and be done
Clint is not evading your questions about who he is and where he recieved his education, it really is NONE of your business. More political than Obama??? LDD is about politics? I must have missed that post.
And as far as people "falling" for his claim to be a "Professional DD Counselor", well, I have read his blog and Clint never stated he was a "Professional DD Counselor" actually, I believe he HAS stated he is NOT a professional (DD counselor) these are his views and ideals for practicing DD, and he said he counsels couples in the application of DD. He stated he is a Domestic Discipline Counselor, he did not say a "Professional" one.
Have you even considered that he may be a "Professional Councelor", such as a social worker or therapist. I don't know if he is or is not, but AS HE SAID it really is irrelevant, and none of yours or anyone elsed business. That is his PERSONAL and "professional" life and I don't know of anyone that gives that kind of information on there blogs, it would be social suicide to do so.
Like I said you wouldn't even post a comment that you KNEW would cause an uproar as "your self" because you didn't want anyone to know "who" you were. Your a hypocrite of the worst kind, you don't even realize what you did.
newbie
Clint
I must apologize to you, my last comment got way out of hand, I didn't realize it was so long. I actually feel bad now, because it was, in a way disrespectful to you and your blog. I should have went to Little Missies blog and commented directly to her, and NOT used your comment area to address her.
I am sorry and I apologize to all your readers for letting her comments get to me like that. "Ash", you did such a good job with your comment, straight and to the point. I kinda feel like a schmuck now.
Sorry everyone.
newbie
"Newbie" already said a lot of what I was going to say, so I'll just touch on a few points that I feel should be made.
-The term counselor is simply someone that gives advice to others. That's essentially exactly what this blog does and to my knowledge, is the only DD blog like it out there (the rest are personal DD blogs, which are fine, but this is the only "advice" one I've seen). A professional counselor can mean all kinds of things, as "Newbie" pointed out. And, regardless of that, a counselor is just someone who provides advice which is precisely what this blog does. I'm don't understand why someone would be so fired up over the word counselor.
-You ("Little Missie") said Clint was evading your questions, yet he took your post question by question (all the way down to the "really?" question) and answered them. I think his answers obviously weren't what you wanted to hear, and your only response was to fire back with "you're still evading my questions". I can't think of any other logical reason why someone would say that statement. Clint literally took your post question by question and answered them.
-I've only glanced over your blog, Little Missie, but as Newbie pointed out, it seems to have a lot of BDSM elements which obviously is fine, since everyone practices DD differently, but why you're reading a blog so clearly opposite of yours is strange to me. It sort of seems like an obsession with Clint, his blog, his advice, etc. and if I were Clint, I would find that to be really odd.
-I don't think there is a church out there where a pastor is going to stand up on Sunday morning and say "Ok everyone, lets talk about domestic discipline". However, I do know of several churches (all Christian denominations) that will recommend, discuss, etc. domestic discipline on an individual basis. What I mean by that is a lot of churches have marriage and family therapists (maybe Clint is one of those? who knows) or church counselors where if you and your spouse are having problems and go to one of those counselors, therapists, etc. they might recommend you look into something like domestic discipline. I have a close friend who went through something pretty extreme in their marriage, that almost ruined their marriage, actually, and their church counselor recommended they look into domestic discipline. There are some churches that advocate DD. But the fact that you seem hesitant (and I don't really blame you) to go to your pastor about it is not anyone on this blog, especially Clint's, problem.
-I firmly believe there's a "right way and a wrong way" to say everything. I think "Little Missie" clearly chose, what I would consider to be, the wrong way by attacking Clint from the get go, thus causing the reaction that it caused. I can honestly say, I would have reacted the same way he did. "Little Missie", if you treat people with respect, you get respect. I don't think any of the questions you asked were necessarily out of line or wrong, but I think they were worded in such a hostile way that it caused Clint to fire back the way he did. When you say the hostility came from Clint, I think that implies that you feel the WAY in which you said things (not WHAT you said) was fine, and I think that's kind of appalling that someone would honestly think that.
By the way, "Newbie", you shouldn't have to apologize to your comment. I thought your post was great..thanks for already addressing a lot of the things I planned to leave on this comment.
Clint, sorry this comment is so long and sorry some people lack reading comprehension skills.
I just want to post a brief comment here and put a stop to this discussion since it's getting a bit out of hand.
I appreciate everyone's comments, including Little Missie's. I don't want this to turn into a bash session on myself, Little Missie, or anyone else. I understand my responses to Little Missie were strong, but I was offended and felt provoked/attacked. Perhaps my responses to Little Missie offended her as well. It could have been handled better. It really doesn't matter at this point, we're all adults here, so it's best we all just move on.
I continue to encourage everyone to share their thoughts, feelings, concerns, comments, and questions in the comments section of the blog.
-- Clint
Can you tell the man is a HoH? LOL
@Christina - That I am. :)
-- Clint
In RL I am a soft spoken mouse. As a mother and wife, I have had to learn to make myself heard. I have to talk to school principles, teachers, doctors, nurses, store supervisors and even a bill collector with the wrong phone number. I have learned how to use strong language to be heard.
You heard and you were offended. That was not my intent. Now where am I? Judged unrightfully so as hostile. I still have no idea where to find a church that would be accepting of dd and no clue where to find Christian related dd information other than the pages I have listed on my own blog.
I did feel attacked by both Clint and others on this page. No I didn’t forget to post anonymously. I figured it was only fair to say who I am. I am sorry you felt attacked. That was not my intent. My questions still stand unanswered.
Thank you for your apology.
Little Missie
Ps. BDSM is a very small part of what we do. You miss read.
In response to the "bottom-brain" connection, I think there has to be one! I don't think I would feel the same if my husband were spanking me anywhere else, even if it were equally safe and equally painful. I wouldn't really feel like I was submitting or like my husband was humbling me if he were spanking me anywhere else.
I totally agree with you. The problem for me is my husband doesn't understand that there needs to be a seperation from discipline and sex. How do I get him to understand that I need that seperation without being disrespectful?
@Anonymous (August 7th 8:02pm) - Perhaps there is a connection! Who knows. We need to have some sort of study or something done on this. :)
@Anonymous (August 10th 7:20pm) - I would say something like this, "Hey honey? Can I talk to you for a minute? I just wanted to talk to you about what happens after we spank. First, before we get into this, I want to make sure you understand that I love you very very much, and I love being intimate with you. That isn't the issue at ALL. Just understand that. What I'm getting at here is I think being intimate after a spanking is something we need to talk about, since I feel it doesn't help as much with whatever I was spanked for. Mixing punishments and sex isn't something I feel good about, and I just wanted to talk to you about it." Then go from there. I think that's perfectly respectful, and by saying "mixing punishment and sex isn't something I feel good about" should convey to him this is a FEELING you have rather than just something you WANT to stop. He'll listen much more if you put it like that.
Hope this helps you out! Best of luck.
-- Clint
Thank you so much for your suggestions. I think that will help. I love your blog! There's so much information.
@Anonymous - You're very welcome and I certainly hope it helps. I'm glad you find the blog helpful. Thank you so much for reading! Your support is very much appreciated.
-- Clint
Clint,
I came to your blog through searching for information about LDD and it is the best I have found. So many are questionable or lewd and I doubt that's what the average couple is looking for.
As to your credentials? You make sense, you have useful information and you practice what you preach. None of your suggestions or definitions are outrageous or dangerous; rather they are aimed at more harmony in the home and family. An HoH must be designated in any home and is usually done so unconsciously, which I believe leads to ambiguity and confusion. As a result, I, like you, tend to go with the Bible in pretty much any confusion.
@eilishaghra - Very well said, thank you so much. I'm glad you appreciate the blog and I certainly hope you find it helpful to your DD relationship/marriage. I appreciate your comment and wish you the very best in the future.
-- Clint
I am new here. I am very impressed by your clarity and consistency, Clint. I am not trying to demonstrate "approval" as you don't require it of me and I am not trying to garner favor through a compliment. I realize what you have to say is one man's opinion, but it makes a lot of sense. The clarity is critical. Often discussions break down into vague innuendos that only create confusion.
I am very dominant and type-A. I have been involved in a mature lifestyle for all of my adult life, almost 25 years. I've done pretty much everything there is to do in the sexual realm and discipline has a huge erotic quality to me. I take offense to the dictionary definition of Bondage and Discipline that you presented on the site with respect to B&D including an Sado/Masochistic angle. They are separate, but often combined. Bondage can be implemented completely without S&M attributes or physical restraint. Too, there are many forms of discipline, not just spanking. All with the objective of adjusting behavior.
I am in a relationship that is very important to me and my partner has rejected almost all of my proclivities (all well understood before our relationship cemented), but has to my delight and surprise "identified" with DD. I am working to adjust my thinking so as step back to the side of the line you have so well defined in DD.
My background makes me somewhat jaded and has colored my implementation of DD. Through some lengthy discussions my partner has introduced me to your site. Although highly skeptical of yet another "blog" I have reviewed your thoughts and comments and can honestly say that you have made an impact on me. Thank you. I have a much better understanding now of what my partner is looking for but I need some clarification on a few things. These questions are worded very carefully to be a core question because I do not care of the opinions of people who do not like "this or that" and lose site of the real question or issue.
(continued to 2)
(part 2)
Please do not read into the questions. I mean what I say and I say what I mean.
STATEMENT: Discipline-- I understand this to mean providing a process (such as spanking) in order to correct bad behavior or poor judgement.
QUESTIONS:
1) Would other forms of discipline be acceptable such as "corner time", "being quiet", "some activity" such as writing on a chaulk board, or even restraint?
2) Is restraint or confinement (e.g., go to your room) or grounding a reasonable punishment. One could argue that Laws are created when common sense is lost and if a person continually breaks the laws they are confined as a form of punishment. It is socially acceptable, and therefore does confinement or restraint work in DD?
STATEMENT: PURPOSE - I am to understand the purpose of the discipline is to correct bad habits, behaviors, or actions (BBA).
QUESTIONS:
1) how are the bad habits, behaviors, or actions (BBA) to be defined? What is acceptable? What is not?
2) Are the definition of BBA the foundation of rules?
3) Are BBA confined only to every day activities or does it extend to other areas such as errors during activities defined by the HOH (e.g., chores, fitness, style of dress, etc.)
4) what are the limits to what defines BBA?
(continued to part 3)
(part 3)
STATEMENT: RULES - I understand the definition of rules to be an identification of BBA and definition of consequences (either specific or vague such as "will earn punishment").
QUESTIONS:
1) What are the limitations to what may be defined as a rule?
2) Are rules limited to things like "you may not drive the car without wearing your seat-belt" or may rules be developed that require a certain behavior e.g., "when we are in private you will address me as 'Sir'", or you must be in bed by 10:00 PM each night, or even a restriction against wearing certain clothing?
3) A rule is a rule, the activity defined in the rule is irrelevant as long as it does not jeopardize a recipient's welfare or safety. Is there a difference between creating a rule that defines whether one is to "take the garbage out" vs. "you must wear a blindfold during any sexual activity"?
(continued to part 4)
(part 4)
STATEMENT: HEAD OF HOUSEHOLD - I understand the HOH to be the disciplinarian in the DD lifestyle and that both parties are equal but the recipient has consented to give the HOH control in this area.
QUESTIONS:
1) Is the HOH always the HOH or is there "down time"?
2) Is the recipient allowed to object and prevent a discipline from happening in an otherwise calm and non-abusive environment?
3) If the HOH sees an issue, wants to define a rule, discusses it with the recipient and the recipient objects. Once noted, if the HOH still deems the rule appropriate should the rule be implemented? I ask this question specifically because if the recipient can object to a rule and thereby prevent it from being implemented then there is no HOH and the entire activity is a game, not a way of life.
STATEMENT: ESCALATION - I understand escalation as the "next steps" if a wife is not learning to correct BBA.
QUESTIONS:
1) How do you define next steps?
2) Are there next steps?
3) Can one increase the severity of a punishment as needed to effect correction?
4) May a punishment be extended to a series of activities over several days (such as, "because of your inability to recognize the seriousness of this error, you will be spanked every night before dinner for the next week.")?
(continued to part 5)
(continued 5)
STATEMENT: MAINTENANCE SPANKINGS - These appear to be demonstrations of the HOH's authority over the wife. A punishment being delivered just because the HOH feels a "tune-up" will help keep the wife motivated and in line.
QUESTIONS:
1) how severe can a maintenance spanking bee?
2) If a wife refuses to submit to a maintenance spanking does that constitute additional punishment? It seems that it would end the entire lifestyle if the recipinet is in control and is actually the HOH.
3) When should you avoid a maintenance spanking?
Thank in advance for your comments. If some of this information is covered in a FAQ please reference links and I will go there.
Thank you,
Anon
I want to respond to one issue raised by the above Anon poster. I am not sure how much Clint will appreciate being asked to write a lengthy treatise to answer all of your questions, but I personally would like to see a continuing discussion of some of these issues.
I do want to discuss one sentiment that you express which I feel is wrong. "3) If the HOH sees an issue, wants to define a rule, discusses it with the recipient and the recipient objects. Once noted, if the HOH still deems the rule appropriate should the rule be implemented? I ask this question specifically because if the recipient can object to a rule and thereby prevent it from being implemented then there is no HOH and the entire activity is a game, not a way of life."
My objection is really to your last statement that if a wife must agree to all rules which she is expected to follow, then DD is a game, not a way of life. A fully consensual DD marriage is not a game in any sense, simply one in which the husband's powers are somewhat more limited than if he were viewed as a "benign dictator."
I studied law and government before I had any part in DD. Therefore, legal/governmental analogies color my thinking about DD. My view is that in consensual DD, the husband takes the roles of the prosecutor, judge, jury and executioner in the home. The husband and wife jointly serve as the legislature to make the rules. By this I mean that the couple jointly agree upon the rules. Once the rules are set (and the rules may give more or less discretion to the husband going forward), the husband's additional roles are imposed. Just as a prosecutor, the husband will confront wife with allegations of rule violation. Just as a judge, he will determine the proper interpretation of the house rules. As the jury, he will determine after hearing his wife's response to the charge, whether she is guilty of the charged offense. After his guilty verdict, as judge he will determine an appropriate punishment consistent with the rules. He will then personally carry out the punishment. In all of his roles, the husband is charged to faithfully perform these functions. He may not in good conscience overlook clear violations or fail to impose consequences in line with the rules. On the other hand, he may not in good conscience, impose consequences that are outside the scope of the agreed upon rules.
While I acknowledge that others might have different views of the how to run a DD marriage, my point is that this type of structure is serious, and cannot fairly be characterized as just a game.
James,
Thank you. I understand exactly what you are saying and I agree with it. Agreement of the rules is "buy in" by both parties. I asked the question the way I did because I've seen a number of postings that, to paraphrase, say "if my husband defines a rule, I may ojbect, but he is still HOH". A somewhat vague comment suggesting that the HOH can still impose those rules. In effect becoming a dictator, as you suggest. That changes the dynamic of the relationship.
Again, thankyou.
D
@Anonymous (November 10th 10:46 PM) - Before I get started with your questions, let me start by apologizing for the late response to them. I appreciate you being so patient with me. I've been rather busy as of late.
In all honesty, I'm not overly familiar with the specifics of a BDSM/Bondage/etc. relationship, nor do I particularly care to familiarize myself with them. With that said, the definition I gave on the blog was taken from the dictionary, and it was not intended to be offensive to anyone, and I'm sorry that you took offense to it. I hope you understand I was simply trying to define the terms for my readers that may have been curious about it.
It truly means a lot that my blog has made a positive impact on you. If my blog opens even one person's mind to the idea of DD, and/or helps them understand that DD doesn't have to be something "unusual" or "weird" or any kind of "fetish", then I consider it a success. Thank you for your kind words.
On to your questions, and I'll break them up as you've done so it's a little easier to read (hopefully).
(Continue on to part 2)
-- Clint
@Anonymous (November 10th 10:46 PM)
Answers to Part 2:
1) Yes, there are numerous punishments I recommend in a DD relationship, all of which are covered on this blog. I've written posts on Corner Time, Bedroom Time, Removing Privileges, and I also wrote an "Additional Punishments" post. I encourage you to read those to help you gain an idea/understanding of them. The only part of this question I disagree with is using restraints as punishment. Any form of restraint on the wife during punishment isn't recommended in a DD relationship.
2) In my answer to question #1 I indicated any form of restraint isn't recommended in a DD relationship. What I mean by this is physical restraint in the form of handcuffs, ropes, and any other item that could be used where the wife physically could not move at her own free will during punishment. That's what I mean by recommending restraint NOT be used in a DD relationship. I do recommend, however, punishments in terms of confinement such as corner time or bedroom time, BUT that does NOT mean the punishment should include any locked doors or anything of the like, nor keep the wife from necessities such as food, water, restroom access, etc. Again, I encourage you to read my Corner Time and Bedroom Time posts for how I recommend these punishments be conducted.
Second set of questions:
1) I simply define BBA's as behaviors the husband/HoH finds to be unwanted, dangerous or detrimental. The specifics of this are different for every marriage. Ultimately the husband and wife should discuss all expectations/rules within a household, agree to them, and agree to the subsequent punishment if any of those expectations are not met, or if any of the rules are broken. The "May Couples Challenge" here on the blog can help you set those expectations/rules for your home.
2) Yes. Whatever you and your spouse agree upon as unwanted, dangerous or detrimental behaviors should be the foundation for your rules of the household.
3) It's not solely confined to every day activities, although I will say I'm not a strong supporter of putting rules in place for things like fitness or style of dress. A lot of HoH's do this, but I don't typically recommend it. The reason I don't typically recommend that is simply because I feel that crosses the line into a "controlling" relationship, and that isn't what DD is about. To me, DD should give the wife free reign to do as she wants, but some of those choices have consequences. Dictating what she wears or setting weight expectations, to me, crosses that line. With that said, a lot of HoH's do this and there isn't anything necessarily wrong with that, but I've given you my personal opinion on it.
4) Limits? Hmm. I'm not sure I understand this question. I suppose there isn't necessarily a limit per se, however I would keep all expectations reasonable. To expect perfection is unrealistic.
(Continue on to part 3)
-- Clint
@Anonymous (November 10th 10:46 PM)
Answers to Part 3:
1) This is a difficult question to answer. Some good limitations to the rules would be to not require anything that would humiliate or otherwise embarrass the wife in any way, there shouldn't be any kind of punishment that includes burning, lacerating, scalding (like with extremely hot water), or any other physical form of punishment outside of spanking on the buttocks. Keep everything rational, reasonable and achievable.
2) Rules within the household, as well as expectations in public situations, are determined by the HoH, and the limitations on them are up to the HoH. This is another difficult question to answer since every HoH is going to define their limitations differently. I think the best way to answer this question is to set your limitations where things that would not be considered loving shouldn't be a part of the rules. For instance, requiring a seat belt be worn when driving is done out of love since you don't want your wife to be potentially harmed or killed in an accident, whereas requiring your wife to kiss your feet every day before bed (extreme example, I know) would be more to humiliate or embarrass her, or satisfy some kind of personal agenda. There's no place for things like that in a DD relationship.
3) In my opinion, yes. A rule like "take the garbage out" is beneficial in some way to the home, whereas "wear a blindfold during sex" could be humiliating (if the wife does not agree to this), and is more to satisfy a personal agenda rather than benefit the marriage or home in some fashion.
(Continue on to part 4)
-- Clint
@Anonymous (November 10th 10:46 PM)
Answers to Part 4:
1) The HoH is always the HoH. No "down time."
2) Yes, the recipient should always have the opportunity to express their concerns, their disagreements, their opinions, etc. to the HoH at all times, even in punishment situations. This is what the lecture is for. The HoH should always take the recipients perspective into consideration, take that information/opinion and determine the best course of action from it. Once the decision on how to proceed is determined by the HoH, that decision should be final and carried out appropriately.
3) I feel a rule should be implemented IF it's for the greater good of the family and/or for the wife's overall safety, even if the recipient objects it. For instance, a wife may object to a "no texting while driving" rule and not want it to be a rule in the marriage, however considering this is illegal and is also a risk to her well-being, it should probably be implemented as a rule anyway despite her objection to it. Ideally the HoH should discuss with the wife WHY he wants a particular rule in place and help her understand WHY it's an important rule so she can understand and hopefully agree to it. This is subject to specific rules, but again, if the objection from the recipient is to a rule that could save her life, I feel it should be implemented anyway despite her objection to it. This, of course, is my personal opinion and decisions like this are ultimately made by the HoH.
Next set of questions:
1) I would define "next steps" as follows: If the wife is not conducting herself in the manner and expectation you've set forth from the start, then it would be time escalate the punishment, or take the "next step." For instance, if the wife is in corner time and she is turning around frequently, asking if it's over with yet, etc., then the "next step" should be taken in the form of an escalated punishment to be determined by the HoH. In this example she is not adhering to the expectations set forth with corner time punishment, and therefore the "next step" should be taken.
2) Yes, there are, but it's important to keep them within reason and not cross the line into neglect or abuse.
3) Yes, but again the punishment should not be escalated so far as to cross into neglect or abuse. For the parameters of "neglect" and "abuse", I recommend you find the definitions of these terms as defined by the state or country you live in.
4) Yes, but I would keep this for only the most serious of offenses, or for constant repetition of the offense after previously punishing for it numerous times already.
(Continue on to part 5)
-- Clint
@Anonymous (November 10th 10:46 PM)
Answers to part 5:
1) I recommend maintenance spankings be relatively mild. The point is not necessarily to correct a behavior, but more to serve as a reminder to follow the rules. Therefore, since no infraction was made, I recommend maintenance spankings remain at a basic or "beginner" level. Specifics like this when it comes to maintenance spankings are ultimately determined by the HoH naturally, but this is what I recommend. I've written a post on them on the blog (naturally entitled "Maintenance Spankings").
2) If a husband and wife have discussed maintenance spankings PRIOR to conducting them and have both mutually and consensually agreed to conduct them on a regular basis or as the HoH sees fit as a rule within the home, then yes, any defiance to them would be grounds for additional punishment since a rule is being broken.
3) Maintenance spankings are variable. I wouldn't necessarily "avoid" them, but if a couple has agreed to include them as a part of their DD relationship, then they should be conducted regularly. I recommend they be done regularly on a 7-10 day basis, but if the wife is exhibiting great behavior over an extended period of time, then the length of time between maintenance spankings should be extended. I wouldn't wait TOO long between sessions, however, as they could be forgotten and/or lose effect if too much time elapses between maintenance spanking sessions.
Hopefully this answers the questions you have. Thank you for taking the time to ask them, and thank you again for being patient with my responses to them. I wish you and your spouse the very best going forward.
-- Clint
@James - You're comment was very well said and illustrated perfectly. Thank you so much for your input. You make great points and I appreciate you taking the time to post your thoughts on the matter.
-- Clint
Clint,
Thank you very much for the thoughtful and detailed response. I very much appreciate your time and consideration. I hope you had a good Thanksgiving.
Your clarifications were very helpful.
I wish you and yours the very best.
Thankyou,
D
@D - You're most welcome. We had a wonderful Thanksgiving and I hope yours was great as well. Happy holidays to you and yours.
All the best.
-- Clint
I really want to disagree. I really, really do. But I can't.
@Anonymous (December 31st 3:44 AM) - Then don't! :)
-- Clint
Clint - I want to thankyou for your Wisdom with regards this - very hot potatoe area of DD - I think you have handeld this whole subject with good insight,thought, and carefull consideration. Please continue to write your blog, it is informative and very sound.
His Princess
@His Princess - That's very nice of you to say, His Princess. Thank you so much. I take a lot of pride in this blog and put countless hours into it. It's nice to know it's appreciated. Thank you.
All the best to you.
-- Clint
I only find spankings erotic if they are for discipline. 'Fun' spankings don't do anything for me at all. The fact that I find my husband being in charge exciting, and it makes him more desirable to me, is a benefit to both of us. If I didn't find the idea of him being in charge, and being able to spank me for discipline, erotic, then I probably would never have suggested it in the first place. I think the idea that there is nothing erotic about discipline spankings is rubbish, quite frankly.
@Anonymous (May 7th 2:13 PM) - I'm so happy to hear you've found what works best for you both, and something that is beneficial to you both. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your experience.
All the best to you.
-- Clint
DISCLAIMER: I would have sent this to you via email, but you no longer accept emails. To anyone reading this, sorry if any of it is awkward/TMI. :/
Hi Clint! I've been lurking this site for quite a while now and have finally mustered the courage to ask a question. Sorry, but it's lengthy. Please bear with me.
My husband and I have been married for a year and we already fight a lot. I get frustrated with some of his decisions and can be very harsh and judgmental with him. Sometimes I feel like the day isn't complete until I tear him down in one way or another.
I admitted to myself and to him that spanking turned me on before we were married. Since then, we've occasionally played around with light BDSM for fun. But when I act out, I feel like I need to be spanked. I get tired of him yelling at me out of frustration and just want him to take me over his knee.
But when I imagine the idea of discipline, I'm turned on. Is that wrong? Even though I realize that this sort of spanking would be far more painful than any play spanking we've had (and we've had some pretty intense play spankings), reading these articles and imagining us living this kind of lifestyle turns me on.
So basically I don't know what I want. Or rather, I know what I want, but I don't know if I want it for the right reasons. I want to approach my husband about this, but I don't know how since my feelings on this are so mixed-up. How do I separate the erotic desire from the desire to be a better wife? I want my husband to take control of our relationship, but I don't think he'll take me seriously. I've made it perfectly clear through my nasty attitude that the only place in which he has control in our marriage is in the bedroom, and I hate that I've done that. I don't know what to do.
@Helena - I'm glad you've mustered up the courage to comment/ask a question. You ask a very good one.
Before I get to my answer, I'm terribly sorry to hear about the marital strife you two are experiencing so early on in your marriage. They say the first year is the toughest, but to "feel like the day isn't complete until [you] tear him down in one way or another" is awful. Sorry to be so blunt, but that's very unfortunate. I know you realize this as well, which is why you've asked your question. So I'll get to my answers.
No, I wouldn't necessarily say that being turned on by discipline is "wrong", but it isn't exactly healthy. Being turned on by an assertive, strong man is one thing, but being turned on by discipline leads me to believe something happened to you when you were younger that mixed up the "normal" way of thinking in regards to both sex and discipline. That's the psychologist coming out in me and I obviously don't know you at all, but if something DID happen where any kind of physical and/or sexual abuse was present I'd strongly advise you seek the counsel of a professional therapist in your area. That's where these feelings would be coming from, and to work towards correcting them, you'd need to come to terms with and deal with those suppressed feelings from your past traumatic experience(s) and understand that whatever happened is not a "normal" physical and/or sexual experience whatsoever.
If that is NOT the case, then I've wasted your time, and I apologize. I would still feel being turned on by discipline is unhealthy, however. If this is how you feel, Domestic Discipline would not help your marriage in the way it's intended to help. Basically, if you're wanting DD because it turns you on, it's not going to correct behaviors. If no behaviors are being corrected, the marriage is not going to improve.
My educated guess is that there is something deeper going on here. I've been wrong before, of course, but that's the impression I get. Honestly I hope I'm wrong, but if I'm right, those feelings need to be addressed as soon as possible.
I wouldn't recommend DD for you two right now. It's not going to work in the way you want it to. You can ask your husband to step up and be a leader, or to put his foot down more, but I'd leave spanking out of the marriage for now. If you want to give DD a try, stick to the basics. Corner time, bedroom time, removing privileges, etc. Your desire to be a better wife can be separate from the erotic desire by leaving spanking out of it (if the spanking is what turns you on).
I know I ramble a lot and I apologize for that, but this is an important question/comment. Thank you for taking the time to post it. I hope my answer helped, and I hope things improve for you and your marriage.
All the best to you.
-- Clint
Clint,
Thank you for your response, and you didn't waste my time at all. Now that you mention it, something did happen in my childhood - something I've been trying to suppress for years. That's probably where I get these feelings from.
While I didn't want DD *because* it turns me on, I'll take your advice and not pursue it any further right now. I don't need to make him "responsible" for my behavior right now anyway. I think he'd prefer that I grew up, worked on my problems, and let him worry about his.
Thank you for your time and for answering my question, Clint. I was really nervous about asking, but you handled it without making me feel more insecure, and I appreciate that.
God bless!
@Helena - It's my pleasure. I hope everything works out for you both. Don't hesitate to ask more questions in the future if you feel the need to do so.
All the best.
-- Clint
My husband punishes me regularly and it is very definitely to discipline me because the punishments are painful. I am naked bent over a table for a punishment session and he uses a leather strap across my bottom to warm me up ready for the cane. He then canes me hard and i sometimes have to take strokes across the back of my thighs as well. I must admit i am turned on by the thought of being caned but it is always so painful that i never get any pleasure from the actual punishment.I think i would enjoy an erotic spanking or caning but my husband wont agree to this says that the cane is for punishment only.
@Anonymous (July 2nd 1:28 PM) - Discipline spankings and erotic spankings are most definitely two different things, as it appears you realize. Thanks for taking the time to comment and share your experiences on the blog.
All the best.
-- Clint
The first thing I'd like to say is - Thank you Clint for conducting this blog. I have never paid you a dime and you have always responded to my posts. If I was looking for a councilor or a psycologist I wouldn't write to someone on a internet blogsite. I simply more intelligent than that. When I need to speak to a councilor, or psycologist I find one through recomendations from family/friends, and community social services. I think this is how everyone who needs counciling should proceed. It's more effective and alot safer. That's how I've always gotten the counciling I needed in my life. I comment on Clint's blog because I believe it is well written, openminded, sane, realistic, sensible, down to earth advice from a intelligent human man who understands what it's like to practice DD because he has experiance in this. That is why I read this blog. Also, it is sometimes difficult to find advice on this lifestyle since it's a bit taboo. Enough said. I hope I didn't offend you Clint. I don't know if your a psycologist or not, but I don't really think that matters at all here.-
Secondly- I have been living this lifestyle myself as well for a few years now. I also enjoy durring sex, but it is completly different than discipline spanking. Durring sex it is spontanious, or part of the wrestling/play dynamic. Discipline spanking is VERY DIFFERENT. When I am disciplined thier is a procedure that takes place. This procedure readies my mind and helps me to keep my mind focussed on the fact that I need/deserved/earned a spanking because I have behaved badly and am now going to be punished as a consequence for my behavior. He does nothing to excite me sexually at all, and gennerally discipline is much more painfull and lasts much longer than a sexual spanking. Not to mention that because of the way we conduct ourselves it feels very different when I'm disciplined as oppossed to a spanking durring sex. When we are done with discipline I pull up my pants, he holds my hand, and he leads me out of the room. Then life goes on as normal. If sex happens that night, or the next day or whatever, that sex has no corilation with my punishment. (Also, it he tends to leave my bottom alone if for some reason it's still red or bruised, like if he paddled me for a long time a day or two ago.) I'm not still apologising durring sex or anything like that. I've been disciplined and now it's over.
I understand basic behavioral modification, so maybe this makes it easier for me. Modifying my behavior isn't always easy, but maybe if people changed the routine they follow durring a discilpinary spanking so that it doesn't resemble sexual activity to them then it might help them differentiate between the two. Don't want to offend you, just a suggestion.
Oh, and again, thanks for providing a place where like minded people can speak openly about thier lifestyles without being prosecuted for it.
@Anonymous (August 14th 11:52 AM) - I am in 100% agreement with you that a couple should seek the help of professional counselors in their area if they feel they need more one on one assistance with their marriage, or with DD.
You in no way offended me - in fact it's quite a flattering comment. I appreciate all the kind words you've said about me and the blog within your comment. It means a lot to me to have your support. Thank you so very much.
Your story/experience is a very good one, and one that I think will help a lot of couples who may struggle with differentiating the two spanking dynamics. Thank you for offering your thoughts, and your suggestion.
You're welcome for the blog, and again, I appreciate all the very kind things you had to say about LDD. All the best to you going forward.
-- Clint
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